Category: Zone BBS Suggestions and Feedback
Jay, could you please explain why you've made the navigation changes to the boards? have people expressed the view that they couldn't navigate them so freely before?
I'm not sure if the new format adds something visually, but certainly for me and the screen reader I use, it actually takes away from the pleasure I always had navigating these pages. I could and most frequently did use the tables mode available to me, thus meaning I could skip swiftly through the page using whichever column I wished at the time. I can no longer do this with topic title, and so would have to drop out of tables mode, and go by heading. To focus on the topic column now in tables mode will just read heading each time I skip to the next not reading what the title of it is. Sure it's as effective I guess when you get used to having to do it differently, but I'm at a loss as to why we need 52 headings on a page instead of 2 or 3.
Also can people please tell me if they feel this is something they find easier/ is it something they find easier because they don't know how to navigate tables in the screen reader they are using? Headings are very useful to me, but not in this way? it feels a bit like over cooking the thing just a little. and if I was to be provocative, it seems a little like what is often refered to as spoon feeding for jaws users.
I'm actually in agreement with Kevin on this point. I use Jaws in screen layout, and this new setup kinda confuses this setup. I used to be able to tab through stuff, then read the line when I wanted more in depth info about a topic. For some reason, it won't do it right anymore. I'm also not quite sure this is very visually appealing. I like the table layout before...
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
Kai
Well. That was fairly ineptly phrased. What I meant was: The new Boards layout confuses my Jaws setup. Possibly because HTML tends to break headings onto their own line? I really think that the table display was better.
Kai
Iew! Iew! Iew! Make the dumb headings go away! They're just pointless to me. Did anyone request to have headings? I sure didn't read it if they did. lol But yeah. How about us going back to the way it used to be? hehehehe
Michelle
I agree with the others as far as the heading things go. I use the arrow keys, and even I'm having problems with them. Plus, it's really anoying when jaws keeps saying "heading level 2" or whatever it is. Also, it happens in the private mail set up as well. Why?
well, i have heading level announcements turned off anyway, as i generally find them to be more annoying than helpfull. So, in itself, this new change doesn't bother me, but I can see where others would be negatively affected.
I'm in agreement with everyone here. I, personally, didn't have a problem with the layout of the boards before it was changed. Now, however, I honestly don't like it. Is there reasoning behind the changes? I certainly never read about any complaints or suggestions for changing it.
please remove the headings, i really don't see the points
This must be a JAWS thing. It's a definite improvement for Window-Eyes. Where the idea came from is sites like Ebay who let you navigate through auction listings by jumping through headings. Visually, they actually don't look any different. If headings break JAWS table navigation, then that may be a bug. Someone should go over to Ebay and do a search to see if headings there do the same thing and report the bug if it does. That being said, some people use JAWS so we'll probably have to do another redesign. We could use anchors like we used between each post which would probably achieve the same effect.
If we're going to stick with this layout, I think the first and second columns should be swapped. With most other sites, the heading is the first item if a group and all other related items are after that heading. Currently the poster appears before the heading, leading one to believe that it applies to the previous post.
I turne off heading announcement. I do love JAWS, but honestly think there is such a thing as too much info. I don't notice any changes.
Jay, I'm using windoweyes, and omitted to say that in the initial post so this wouldn't become a screan reader specific debate. I love using the tables mode navigation with windoweyes, and now can't if i want to navigate by topic. I still can with the other columns, but can't with this, as it now just says heading 2, instead of the title.
The other thing is, that you add in an extra keystroke this way even without tables mode, in that while it will say for example, Heading 2, New board navigation, link, you can't as far as I'm away click on that, you have to drop down a line to the actual link, so isn't saving anything even if we accept that outside tables mode I can navigate by heading.
I really don't personally see how you can say this is an improvement for windoweyes, unless you aren't using the table navigation that is there for us.
Another problem with this new way that i have noticed is that if I am choosing a board to read when a quick note comes in, I can't just press shift + H anymore. It is annoying at least and I can work around it. Just pointing it out. On the plus side of things though, Highlighting the board topic makes it much faster for me to move through them seeing as I was a tabber.
I looove this new navigation. Please don't get rid of it.
hmmm, i guess i'm not the only one that don't like it!. hehehe go back to the old way. please please please. hehehehe smiles. shea
It's not a huge problem for me, but I had no difficulty navigating before so really see no need for the change.
please please please, listen to us lovely zoners? lol!
I don't know if this would be possible here, but on other boards I visit, there is an option in every user's profile where they can select which board style or layout they want to use. Would that be possible here, where there's a default layout, but a user can select a different one from somewhere within their profile?
Brooke, this is something people have asked for, and while we've never been toldan outright no, it's not happened yet.
I hate the heading lay out, because i jump to the top of QN's with the heading command. lol, can't do that no more.
I kinda like it actually. Although I had no trouble with it before, this way I can quickly skip through each subject title only having to press the H key. Like it!
Any comments on moving this to anchors? That'd be like jumping through posts then, and perhaps more consistent anyway.
Jay, I've never used anchor's and only now tried it to see what it aqctually does. but I think the question better is, are you going to be adding something that is really necesary.
I think we often argue how the creators of screen readers often add features that we really don't need if we as blind people can be bothered to use the tools we have propperly. So, if you add a feature like anchors, are you giving us something we already have the tools to achieve easily.
I think in terms of adding to a table, it's unecesary. I don't know what table navigation is like with jaws, so effective comment on this would be good, especially as we have to acknowledge though it's somewhat distasteful to me, that most of the screen reader users here are jaws users.
Please just go back to the old way.
I also find this new layout vary annoying.
and even with headings off it still puts a nice blank line where there wasn't.
I can easily get used to it, I especially like the fact that you can now get a list of your headings and go right to the topic title, whereas as it was, with a link list every other link was a profile.
I agree with blackbird that I've never used anchors much so don't know how that would work.
I guess I'd vote to keep it, but if you go back I won't throw a tantrum or anything.
Bob
I don't mind it but I do think the heading should be on the poster not the subject.
I know nothing about anchors, all I know is I like this new navigation thing. It's sweet.
headings, if they stay, should remain on the post title
I'm another one that doesn't much like this new layout. I don't know exactly what anchors are and are for, as I've never used that feature, but maybe that's a better idea. I have heading announcements turned on in JAWS because it makes it easier to go thru a page and I feel like it's important for knowing how the page is layed out, but I also have webpages to be read in screen layout instead of simple layout. So that means that the table setup on here goes across for each board topic, wich honestly makes it annoying to hear, say, BlackBird heading level 2 New board navigation. 28 posts, ... etc. So yeah, I would like it better if it was put back the way it was, or the anchors thing.
i've never used anchors. the table was okay, nothing to worry about really. it just said table before navigation. i like this new way, much easier navigation for me by just using the h key.
For a use of anchors, go to the individual topics and press A in Window-Eyes, not sure what in JAWS. It will jump you to the next topic.
Ehh, I'm more or less indifferent to this one. I agree with Bob, I won't much mind either way. I usually just tab through anyway, so it doesn't make a huge difference to me. *shrugs*
I agree with Cala, though. If they stay, headings should be on the titles.
yaaaay, thanks for changing the crappy heading thingy's. hhehehe smiles
They're still around as anchors.
In jaws just press the letter a and you will be taken to the next topic.
Actually, it's pretty neat.
Thanks admin.
Now, how can we get more points?
Bob
aha, this is better now. thanks